The Village Idiots

4 comments:

1. Reid, 19. January 2010, 14:19
   

   Let’s get one thing out in the open before I start: this is a dificult subject to deal with. You feel the reluctance just thinking about the thread don’t you? I know I do. So this is hard, but we should try to work through this. My approach is going to be to just start; just throw ideas out there, knowing that some of them will be totally off base. My thinking is to get ideas out there–and together–we can weed out the bad ideas from the good. OK, enough stalling.

   Here are some random thoughts that come to mind when I look at the films above:

   • One thing all those films have in common is that everything in the films seem to work; the different components come together to form a satisfying whole.
   • The story or themes are compelling; they resonate deeply.
   • Great films seem to be technically great–which can include everything from editing, cinematography, mise-en-scene, acting and writing.
   • One of the criteria I think is often present is the level of ambition of a film. Is it swinging for the fences in terms of telling a difficult story or getting at something truly grand and profound? Great films often do that.

   Is there anything else? I’m sure there must be. I think we’re going to have to flesh out what we mean by compelling themes and story. What makes a story or theme resonant? My initial reaction is that they have to be true and touch upon some profound truths. I’ll let others chime in.

   One last thing, though. Writing some of this makes me realize that some of this criteria will be highly subjective (e.g. stories that resonate. Is there a way we can determine which stories resonate in a more profound, univeral way versus ones that are more personal?)

    
2. Mitchell, 20. January 2010, 7:15
   

   One of the criteria I think is often present is the level of ambition of a film. Is it swinging for the fences in terms of telling a difficult story or getting at something truly grand and profound? Great films often do that.

   This would rule out groundbreaking, wonderful films like Pinocchio, which was one of the most ambitious films of all time but isn’t swinging for the fences in terms of telling a difficult story or getting at something truly grand and profound. I consider it the greatest animated film ever, yet it fails to meet this criteria. For that matter, it would seem to rule out a lot of the great movie musicals.

   Maybe this one could be amended to include ambition in general, and not specifically ambition in the areas of getting at something truly grand and profound. Full-length animation was a truly grand, new form of storytelling, especially the way Pinocchio approached it. Look at the difference between Snow White, the first full-length animated movie and Pinocchio, the second, and it’s like comparing a child’s Etch-a-Sketch doodle with a Van Gogh.

    
3. Reid, 20. January 2010, 9:49
   

   Several comments:

   • I think using ambition, in a more general way, (versus specifically referring to profound truths) could be a more appropriate criteria.
   • However, a film that tries to really get at something profound and difficult would seem to warrant more “points,”–especially if we feel it succeeds–don’t you think?
   • Are you sure about Pinnochio that you could say it is not getting at some profound truth? I don’t remember the film enough to say for sure. I don’t feel like it’s trying to explain the nature of love or human existence…well, I can’t even say that for sure.
   • Your comments make me think of an important issue that we should discuss, namely the idea that some qualities are essential and others are not (although the latter may be present in many great films). Actually, we should pose this issue as a question: are there any essential qualities for a great film? For the most part, I think that the qualities are not absolutely essential. Actually, to be more accurate, I would say that a great film doesn’t have to have all the qualities that we associate with great films, but it must have some of them. *(So a musical like Singin’ in the Rain might be considered great.) What do others think?

   You bring up the issue of a film being ground-breaking or innovative. I think that might be a criterion to consider, too.

    
4. Reid, 25. January 2010, 10:18
   

   Grace, Penny and I had a discussion about this on Saturday. We were talking about judging films based on the objectives of the film and the how well the film met these objectives. After the discussion, I realized something else, and I wanted to post it here. There are many films that can succeed, at least to some degree, at achieving its objectives. I’ve been arguing that these films meet the main criteria for being good. However, these may not be very good or even great. So the question is what elevates a film from merely succeeding at reaching its goals to a film we consider great?

   Part of what made me realize this is that there are a lot of films that I think are good, but I wouldn’t necessarily call great. For example, I think Italian Job was a well executed film, but I wouldn’t call it great. I certainly don’t think it is one of the best films of the decade. There are several films like this. So, what would distinguish a great film from just a good film?

   Here are some thoughts off the top of my head:

   • The goals and objectives are really interesting, ambitious and/or original;
   • The film achieves its goals in an extraordinary way. I’m thinking of the acting, writing, mise-en-scene, music, etc. One or more of the elements are exceptional and perhaps the way these elements come together are also exceptional. (What makes these elements exceptional? Something is exceptional if we can say that it is among the best we have experienced. Also, if one of the elements are really innovative and original)

   Your thoughts?

   Btw, we haven’t mentioned the influence on other films and culture and society as a criteria for greatness. Should that be included? If so, what priority is it?

   Another: what about the film’s ability to pass the test of time? How important is that?

    

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